The importance of proactive maintenance and upstream thinking with Tim White

Machine-generated transcript of “The importance of proactive maintenance and upstream thinking with Tim White”. Paragraph breaks mark a change of speaker.

Good morning. This is David Up Shire with Under Pressure Podcast. This morning we've got Tim White. Tim, thanks for joining, buddy. Absolutely. Well, Tim, it looks like you took a pretty unconventional route in the industry. You spent six years in the Navy working around steam plants and even went through nuclear power school. How did that experience shape the way you think about maintenance and reliability today?

I would say that the biggest impact for me was the having a good understanding at the execution side of maintenance. So performing repairs in a precision manner and you know repairing things that I mean if it fails, that's a really bad day.

We didn't need that happening. Yep, exactly right. So you've worked everywhere from power plants to offshore drilling rigs to hospitals. What surprised you when you realized in the fundamentals of reliability really didn't don't change that much from one industry to another?

Well, I don't know that I was uh necessarily surprised, but you know, you mentioned healthcare. We do have a large healthcare client, and I was surprised that some of the exact same practices are just as relevant for them. But I think the biggest surprise overall is how much help companies still need today. We're decades into this, and you know, everybody understands how things can fail, and and you know, there's been lots of studies on it, and yet there's still so many companies that struggle on a day-to-day basis.

Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree. The reliability of equipment, of course, is the livelihood of many businesses, including my own as well. I mean, if you obviously have any equipment that has downtime, obviously it's gonna cost your customer money. And of course, too, at the end of the day, it's gonna create issues and breed issues with their process, whether it's a a well application or a VRU application or just a regular, you know, backside application, it's gonna affect everything. And there's so many different variables that people just don't think about, you know, when equipment fails and just and you're not prepared for it either. I think that's the the other big thing. So you told a great story about a plant that had industrial blowers permanently pointed at an overheating bearing because everybody had simply accepted that as normal, and the real problem turned out to be alignment. How often do you find companies managing symptoms instead of asking why the problem exists in the first place? The time.

In fact, it I heard, you know, talking about that one particular bearing issue, it's amazing to me how you know problems can become just the accepted norm over time. That's you know, this is just the way things operate around here, and this is what we have to deal with. And sometimes it's not, you know, the big complex equipment having a, you know, an unexpected failure, if you will. It's little things that just irritate the operators day in and day out that can add up to be just as much of a a challenge, if not more sometimes, when in reality there's a potential simple fix to getting rid of the issue altogether.

Yep, absolutely. I completely agree. That's that's one thing that just that thinking ahead, of course, and thinking through the process and what causes it. I I read a good book probably about maybe five or six years ago called Upstream, and that in that book, of course, that was one of the things that they talked about. It was just thinking ahead and trying to be proactive and what actually causes the issues to help fix them before they ever even create in different forms and fashions. And of course, I use it lots of times in business, of course, for equipment, right? So it just makes our life that much easier.

So if you can create a if you could create a culture where when your technicians are out repairing something, that you know, you not even then you have to be formal, just teach them to be thinking in their mind, why am I here? And and obviously they're there to make the repair, but what cost it? Right. And to start thinking that way a little more and maybe get the support of the operation side uh to allow them just that little extra time to to put things back together the right way and you know, maybe do a little bit of investigation while they're trying to get things back up and going, I think helps tremendously.

Absolutely. So, Tim, you were helping power plants move away from purely time-based preventive maintenance more than 20 years ago. What changed when operators could finally understand the actual condition of a machine instead of tearing it apart just because the calendar said it was time?

Well, the biggest impact is you're suddenly not doing non-value added PMs all the time. As part of making those transitions, you know, one of the things that you need to do is look at, you know, what am I doing on a tongue-based frequency and where is that overlap when you start adding technology to identify, you know, potential problems? Because, you know, that's that's the one place you don't want that overlap in most cases. And so it changes the workload and changes the focus a little bit more. But yeah, I think that's probably genuinely what they enjoy the most. Is I don't have to go do this all the time anymore because yeah, I I know I did it from my desk like 50% of the time anyway.

So Right, right, exactly. Or the breakthrough. Yeah, no, you're you're exactly right. So you talk about remaining useful life almost like it's miles to an empty indicator in a car. It isn't a perfect number, but it gives you enough information to make a much smarter decision. How good are we getting at predicting failures before they actually happen?

Well, I think we're really good. The biggest problem that I see now is people acting on the information. So just yesterday, talking with a good friend of mine, we've we've done work with him for years, and he and I have actually developed a great friendship. But he's uh a VP of engineering and maintenance for a large company up in Canada. And I remember back when we first met, he says, Tim, you don't understand. We have an incredibly robust predictive maintenance program. Our problem though is even though we get the alerts, we sit right here in our office and we watch it explode anyway. Yep. So, you know, technology is great, but you've got to be able to act on the information that's there, which means that in addition to the technology, you have to have an extremely robust work process system that will take that information and move it through the channels to get the the prioritization of it agreed on, get the work planned out and scheduled in a way that it doesn't affect the operation any more than it needs to. And if if you get that piece of it right, suddenly the the PDM side of it will will start to show its benefits. You mentioned the remaining useful life piece, and that was something we developed back in 2016, I think it was, when I was at the offshore drilling company, and and really what that stemmed around was our major equipment that our OEMs insisted had to be overhauled every five years, just because they knew the rig was going to be in the shipyard anyway. So, hey, this is a great time for you, spend a lot of money with me and I'll overhaul it. And it didn't always need it. And we knew that intuitively, my my leadership knew that intuitively, but they just, you know, it's just oh, hey, this is the way the the industry is, this is what we have to do. Well, what we started doing was using the data and general laws of physics, basically. You know, we get power in, power out, and there's some loss across the that across that equipment, you know, that are based on the the general parasitic losses you're gonna have, which in most cases are heat and vibration, and that that sucks out that efficiency. Well, when that efficiency is getting greater, that equipment is wearing out or starting to have some kind of problems. So I I do you know try to explain this to people because we can all relate with it today. And that is you get in your car and it tells you how many miles you could drive before you have to put gas in it. And it's not always an exact science. And and I love to even give the example of you jumped in the car from your office, you drove home. Well, when you got in the car, it said you had 100 miles before you needed gas, you got home 20 miles down the road and now says it's 105. Well, how did that go up? Well, it went up because you changed the way you probably were driving your car instead of city traffic, stop and go, you suddenly were doing 70 down the interstate, and it was much more efficient. So when you operate equipment, it's the same way. You don't always put the same loads on it. So that number can change. But you you you said we don't try to take it to an exact science, and that's exactly correct, because I'm not trying to say this is the hour we need to repair the equipment. What I'm trying to help people look at is I'm about to go into a shutdown or a turnaround, and I need to know is this equipment going to last until the next one, or do I need to pay attention to it at this during this particular shutdown? Yeah, so it's a it's a much broader, high-level look at what's going on. It's not trying to run it to get the last ounce of energy out of it.

Yeah, absolutely. And usually, of course, too, just and anybody does when they're dealing with equipment, you know, if you run to catastrophic failure, right? It's it's too late at that point. Like it's the damage is done. Sometimes the equipment's not repairable. Obviously, the costs go up, downtime goes up. It's a hand in hand that follows suit with that. So that that's one thing, too, that lots of people forget about when it comes to taking care of equipment, just like you would your car, right? You don't you don't drive it till you get 20,000 on your oil, right? 20,000 miles on your oil change. You do it supposed to be every 5,000 miles. Now they've changed it. You know, everybody keeps, you know, increasing it to 10,000 miles on some oil now. And of course, too, us older guys, we're like, oh no, it's it's 5,000 miles. Don't don't drive over. So you you hear the different analogies today. And of course, too, it gets a little scary, especially from my mechanical brain, where I go, man, we just need to go ahead and change it early to be safe. So anytime that you can prevent any kind of failures and reduce reduce the chance of having any issues downtime, of course, you try to prevent them ahead of time. And I think too, it's just best practice, right? Where sometimes lots of people forget that. And of course, too, equipment and the oil and gas industry, you know, it runs 24-7. And I always explain that to people, you know, they forget about it when we go home and lay our head on the pillow. It's like that equipment's still running, it's not stopping, it's going. So the wear and tear, you know, in the normal world, you know, of course, it don't really pertain to what, you know, sometimes goes on, and especially in the oil and gas side of things.

So yeah, uh, when I worked in drilling, we always used to joke that we slept with our phones on our chest. Yeah. But you brought up a great point, David, and it's around lubrication, right? So yeah, you talked about oil changes, but even more impactful than just keeping the oil change is how it's stored and how it's dispensed. This is where I see a lot of people causing a lot of problems with the reliability of their equipment. So, you know, the coffee can with the open top, with the oil sitting up under the workbench, and you just grab it and go use it to top off a gearbox or something, that is not a good practice. You're right. Yeah. And and and even understanding that new oil is not clean oil. And this was something I had to do with my my techs offshore is to try to show them and explain, you know, the fact that running those through our filter cart and then having the dispensing drum and then having important you know, uh good dispensing equipment that moved it from that drum to the equipment that it was going to go to, how important that was. Because especially in s in things with sleeved bearings, like maybe compressors, you know, your that oil film is only five microns. And that means that if you get something in there that's six microns, that takes all the pressure that's riding around that entire film of oil and puts that load in one single spot, and that's what starts to cause your problems. And to give you some context, the hair on your head is like 80 microns. Yeah. So we're talking smaller than that. So it's really important that those practices are really adhered to and paying attention to.

Yeah, I completely agree. And I've seen it lots, lots in my industry where I've seen engines filled up with hydraulic oil instead of engine oil, right? Because a mechanic was in a rush and opened a wrong valve and put the wrong oil in a $150,000 or $200,000 engine and you know, shell it because of, you know, putting the wrong oil in, or a mislabeled container, of course, as well, which I've seen and I'm sure you've seen over your career. And those those things when they come up, they're they're pretty easy to spot, but nobody ever wants to take responsibility for it when you go out there and you're like, yeah, this is not engine oil in the engine there, and you get those questions. But of course, too, it's just that best practices thing, too. That's why it's always so important to have everything labeled correctly, and of course, just make sure, like you mentioned, about having a good filtration system too on your oil when you're putting it in. Uh, because I've seen oil get contaminated from tank to tank, right? Where somebody's transferring it and just mix it in something else. And next thing somebody opens a top and leaves it open for a week in a machine shop, and next thing it's filled up with metal shavings and causes tons of issues. I I completely agree. So now you've you've taken the concept, another step with Lighthouse Guardian, where you're combining operational data with things like vibration and oil analysis and using AI to identify specific failure modes. What can AI see in the data that traditional maintenance programs might miss?

So, where the benefit to this is, is really moving from a predictive approach like we were talking about before, or some some people prefer to use the words condition monitoring, right? Where we're doing things based on condition. But now we bring in the operational context of that equipment at the same time, and we we really approach it from a more prognostic approach, if you will, which basically is a fancy word meaning I'm using multiple data sources. And it makes a lot of sense if you think about it, because you know, when we're looking at equipment, we're talking about equipment failure not being broken and in pieces on the floor, but literally like when the equipment is failing to meet its intended function. So, what does that mean? The best example I like to give is when you walk up to the operator, you say, I got to rebuild this pump. He goes, What are you talking about? It's running fine. I hear you, here it is, it's all good. And you go, Yeah, but it's about to not be, right? And and it's because maybe, maybe it's discharge pressure or flow or something is degrading, and but to an operator, hey, it's running, it's not making any noise, everything's fine. This is why I say it makes sense to start bringing in this control system data because literally that's measuring the function that you want that equipment to take care of. So taking that, using it with our more traditional asset health data that we have, whether it's from vibration or oil analysis or the plethora of other technologies that are out there, and combining that together, you get a really big picture of what's going on with the equipment. Now, what happens is now I'm throwing a whole lot of data, and a human has a hard time correlating all of this, and uh a computer doesn't. So generally, we'll build these models based on pure laws of physics because that equipment can only operate one way and there's a wrong way, right? So that's kind of the starting point. But as the program sees failures, right? So I led up to failure A, and this is how the data started to change, the program remembers that. And this is where the term machine learning comes from. The program remembers that these 10 different parameters went in these directions, and that's what it ultimately led up to. So that's a way that it gets smarter. So that's where the AI helps us.

Yep, absolutely. I I completely agree. In my career when I was younger, I got to do lots of reliability studies on equipment, and you know, just by using histograms and and you know, putting the data in there and looking at the data and being able to, you know, manually figure out and try to predict as close as you can lots of the failure points. And now with AI, right, like I don't think anybody even uses histograms anymore, right? So they just they just dump it and use the you use, yeah, use the technology that's out there. I I remember I think I was around 21 or 22, and I had to pay for a software that you know had the histogram. I think it was Excel, you know, a version of it that you had to pay for an upgrade that you could put the data in and dump it and you know, to get that information out. And now everybody just you know uses their phone or has an app on their phone and literally just copy and paste and dumps it in there and it does all the work for you. So I know definitely it's definitely evolved. So Lighthouse Advisor is an interesting idea because instead of one AI assistant, you've essentially created a virtual conference room of operations, maintenance, engineering, and reliability experts. What happens when someone brings a real plant problem into their room?

Well, so yeah, it's interesting that you brought up this is the agentic feature that we have within the Lighthouse Advisor versus we were talking about Guardian before, right? And now we're moving into the advisor application. And you're right, what we do is based on the client and the roles that they have, we create those roles within the AI engine. So we have an agent that maybe is the plant manager, we have an agent that's the maintenance manager, the agent that's the operations manager, right? They all have different focuses, different goals, and probably even different metrics and control their bonuses, right? So they're driven in different ways, right? So they have they they they look at things differently. And generally, in you know, the real world, we would all sit down in a conference room and and figure out a solution to to doing something. And those would be, you know, for the complex problems. But there's a lot of questions that we feel just don't get asked, but you need advice on that. And by having a multi-agent system that's able to bring that answer back to you, you you're gonna get the perspective of the whole business and what it needs in order to operate. And some may have a knowledge of something that another person doesn't, right? So maybe the ops guy knows something that the maintenance uh manager doesn't. So what happens is the more simple questions, the ones that may never get brought up. And just this morning we were talking about an example that we saw one of our clients use. We noticed that they had put in a technician actually put in, should I put a work order in for this problem I just found? And the operations agent answered, no, there's a work order on this problem already. The maintenance manager answered, yeah, but that got closed out yesterday. So yeah, you need to enter a new one, right? It's just the simplest thing in the world, right? You go, oh, okay, and you go, it, it's, it's, it's amazing. So, you know, it's not uh I I hate to liken it to like chat GTP, but it's it's a prompted deal. You just ask whatever it is that you're you're wondering about. And of course, that work order example is the simplest thing I could come up with, but we literally saw a technician do that. So, you know, I thought it'd be a good example that people would understand how you might get different answers for things.

Yep, absolutely. So you once audited a condition monitoring program in Hong Kong where everybody was walking around carrying the same reliability book, and then you realized the books were brand new and had apparently been handed out right before you arrived. What did that experience teach you about the difference between looking like you have a rock reliability culture and actually having one? That whole project.

It literally was a PDM program audit that we got asked to come in and do, and I was leading that team, but yeah, the they were carrying around RCM2 by John Mowbray. And, you know, that's basically the the old testament to how we should approach, you know, a good maintenance program. And and uh, but you're right, the bindings were not even broken. And I didn't realize it until I was talking to a guy, and and I said, Well, let me show you in your book, right? You're carrying around to open it, and it went crack, crack, crack, crack, crack. It never even opened. I was just like, oh my goodness. So, you know, a good reliability culture is always gonna ask why, and they're gonna always be looking to improve, right? So there's a culture where I go out and I make the repair and I move on. I don't think any more about it. There's another culture that's out there that's making the repair and improving or attempting to improve upon what was already there, right? Because they're asking, why did this happen? How can I keep it from happening again? Um, predictive maintenance is a wonderful tool, but it doesn't help us with reliability. The only way reliability improves is if I am able to design out the failure. And I say that because, you know, and I'm not saying PDM's not good, I'm not saying that at all. That if I want to improve the availability or the OEE of my plant, and I need to do it with maintenance, then I've got to be absolutely good at early identification of the problem. If I can't identify it early, I'm not going to improve that availability. So PDM tools are very appropriate for. This, but I'm not designing out the failure or getting rid of the failure. I'm just identifying it earlier so I can attack it on my own terms instead of it telling me when I'm going to attack it. So that's really the difference in those cultures is is is you know trying to improve upon and and and design out the problems that are there so that they're not reoccurring and coming back.

Yeah, absolutely. So, Kim, for somebody coming into the energy today, whether they're leaving the military like you did or coming straight out of school, what would you tell them about building a career that can take them from power plants to offshore drilling to consulting technology and eventually owning their own business?

I think the one of the most important things is to immerse yourself into the community. And what I mean by that, there's organizations out there that support the reliability industry, such as SMRP is a great one, great example. PMAC up in Canada. You know, become involved with those groups because you're going to create a network of people that are in the same industry as yourself. In addition to doing that, I think one of the things that really helped uh catapult me was having an interest in starting to do presentations at conferences, writing white papers to get them published in magazines. Now albeit the trade magazine, just not like Forbes or something like this. But yeah, the the trade magazines that people like you and I are reading. Yes. Um and and become help help yourself become seen as an expert in the field. And always challenge the ideas. I've got a really good friend of mine that albeit he may not be as politically correct in his uh posts and stuff on LinkedIn as you know one might think he needs to be, but he challenges John Mowbray directly and everything that he's doing. And you've got to do that, right? Yeah, that that was written several decades ago, and I personally feel it's still very, very relevant. And and he does too, to a point, but he challenges it out loud and makes people start thinking about it, right? And it's just, I don't know, he he he's he's really made a name for himself. Not not in a bad way either. I mean, status quo is not always the right thing, if that makes sense.

Yep, absolutely. No, it does. And I think you're exactly right, Tim. And that's one thing that as I've had, you know, several interactions with younger college students when I go to speak to them. And one of the most consistent things is is, you know, I try to tell them to be involved, right, in the organizations, the different events that are going on and to engage. And the I actually spoke to a younger group of college students, I think it was about a month ago, and one of the biggest things I told them was to get involved, right? And with the organizations and what your interests are and what your career field you're gonna pursue, and try to, you know, I guess kind of put yourself out there, right? And try to be, you know, a leader in whatever you're gonna do. And I think too, you know, with the technology today, lots of the kids, you know, they're on their phones. Uh, they don't like to talk to people, they don't like to public speak. But so I I've, you know, always try to encourage them. I was like, hey, you just got to get out there and do it. But once you join these organizations, lots of these good organizations that are out there, whatever field you go into, it's gonna push you to get out of your comfort zone and be involved, right? And it's gonna connect you with people that will give you long-lasting relationships throughout your whole career if you decide to, and you know, can set you up for success. And I think that's so important, especially with the younger generation coming in today to the workforce, just trying to encourage them to get involved. And I remember when my youngest daughter went to college, we went through orientation, and that was one of the things they said, you know, just you know, join an organization and get involved and get connected. And, you know, of course, once you're they're able to do that, they're able to flourish. And I think sometimes the kids forget that and they think, oh, I'll just go to college and get a degree. And I won't ever have to, I won't ever have to talk to anybody, I won't ever have to interact, I won't ever have to do anything out of my comfort zone, but definitely being able to connect with folks and build those relationships to set you up for success and move you into the right direction with your career. So, but I do want to thank you, Tim, for your service as well today. Of course, I I know it's always I I have tons of friends of mine that were in the military, and that's one thing I always commend them, you know, for being able to spend that time in the military and give and serve and you know, just be a great asset to the, you know, to the U.S., which is something that's really important to me because my dad was in the army and you know, I've got friends that were in the Navy and, you know, Marines, of course, and just tons of folks that I've interact with on a daily. And I really encourage everybody that, you know, ever gets to speak to someone like yourself, always tell them, make sure you thank them for their service, right? It's something that's really important. My dad was really big on that growing up, and he can steal that in me as well. Just always to thank anybody for their service in the military. So thank you for your service, Tim, and thank you for jumping on the show today and spending some time with us and encouraging the next generation. One of the things, Tim, that we like to do for every guest that come on the show, just when you get a chance, if you can just send me your mailing address, we send out a care package just saying, hey, thank you for coming on the show today. You know, it's just something we like to do for someone taking time out of their busy schedule and giving back. So, but that's gonna wrap up the show today for for me and Tim White. So, Tim, thank you so much, buddy, for jumping on today and uh have a great rest of your week. Okay. All right. Sounds good. Thanks, David. I appreciate it. Thank you. Appreciate you, buddy.